Rt. Hon. Victor Afam Ogene, represents Ogbaru Federal Constituency of Anambra State on the platform of the Labour Party. He is also the Leader of the Labour Party Caucus in the House of Representatives. He served as Deputy Spokesperson, House of Representatives from 2011 to 2015.
In this interview with IGNATIUS OKOROCHA, Hon Ogene stressed the need to replace state of origin with state of residence in the nation’s constitution.
He speaks on other issues of national importance including factors that influenced the successes of Labour Party in 2023 general elections, Electoral Act and the state of the economy, among others.
Hon, in your second coming to the Parliament, what are the things that you intend to do within this four years of your stay in the House of Representatives?
Well, even if I come here ten times, the first and the foremost, I pledge to be a voice for my people. This is the House of Nigerian people, where people have come from diverse parts of the country, across race, across religion, across local governments. And so, my first priority is to get the voice of Ogbaru people heard and if their voices are heard, if their lack of federal presence is attended to by bringing it to the national fora and having brought it and to also ask for their fair due in addressing and ameliorating such situation.
Then on the flip side, to also be part of those who would be involved in progressive legislation. We just talked about the Electoral Act, which needs fine-tuning. There are other pieces of legislation that would also help us to begin to see ourselves more as a nation than just a people.
For instance, I keep asking, what is State of origin still doing on our forms? We should rather replace that with State of residence. If you live in Lagos and pay your tax in Lagos, you should pay some form of allegiance to Lagos; you also benefit from whatever is in Lagos due to any part of the country. So, there are a whole lot to be done.
We should also be thinking of shifting focus from just a certificate education to handsome technological education. Some of us are looking in the area of entrepreneurship; how it can be promoted so that people can actually live of their brans and their hands. So, these are some of the focuses that I intend to pursue.
The Labour Party is relatively new in Nigeria politics. How were you able to dislodge the established political parties in Anambra State to come to the House of Representatives under the Party?
Well, of course, even besides Anambra, in the entire country, Labour has existed. But of course, its fair of influence especially in national elections have been very minute because the people who should form the crux of the Labour Party are the working class, which are actually the people who got the party registered. But we also know that they all have their own preferences, based on their various States.
The tendencies that were at play in the different States had helped to know what their power was in terms of political gains through elective office. You will recall that Dr. Mimiko had used Labour Party to serve two tenures as governor, and they had one or two National Assembly members at different intervals. But coming specifically to your question regarding Anambra State, well, generally there was a clamour for change in the entire country. And the person who led the crusade so to speak, former Governor Peter Obi, had over the years proven to be a politician with a difference, even during his time as Governor of Anambra State between 2006 and 2014. Within that period, he was able to do things differently.
He had been able to talk and cause a reduction in the cost of governance. He was able to bring civility to the political space in Anambra, which before him, a kind of agbero (gangsterism) politics was on display. Then, coming to the national scene, the people especially the emergent youth that you might call the internet age saw a glimmer of hope because if we are going to return our country to the glorious days and push ahead, then we are going to do certain things differently. And they saw in Obi an arrow head to bring such dream to fruition.
So, all over the country, there was a clamour for Labour Party. But Mr. Peter Obi could not have done it alone; so he also needed lieutenants in terms of people who will run as Senatorial and House of Representatives candidates, State Assembly and even governorship candidates, that will actually drive this message to the grassroots. So, I think that Anambra where he comes from, being an immediate beneficiary of his brand of politics, it was quite easy for the people to identify with this new message of the ideal change. And to my mind, I think that was what actually led to the emergence of Labour Party as a major opposition voice. So, essentially, it’s a combination of factors: the pedigree of the man who led the charge; the buy in of the Nigerian electorate into his message, and then the little contributions of other political players, who at the end of the day formed the structure of Labour Party
The 2022 Electoral Act, which was authored by the 9th National Assembly, initially brought a lot of hope to Nigerians, but after the general elections, Nigerians tend to lose hope and confidence in the Act as well as in the Judiciary, because of the court verdicts that came out on the electoral cases. What is your take on all this?
There is never a time to lose hope. Anybody who loses hope, be it an individual or corporate body, association or even a nation, then that’s the end. Hope is just a four-letter word, but it gives us enough courage to face the future.
So, no matter what has gone wrong, it’s in the line of separation of power. The Legislature makes the law, the Executive implements and the Judiciary interprets. So, if in the interpretation of the laws, we feel that there are hazy areas, it behoves the Legislature to revisit the law and fine-tune it to be in tandem with the expectations of the people, because they are actually the people’s voice.
And a law that is not tested is as good as frozen on the paper in which it is written. So, what you see going on is a test of the laws, particularly the Electoral Act 2022, which you refered to. At the end of the judicial proceedings, when Nigerians begin to dissect the outcomes, you see people say no, we think we should do A, B, C. Then, it is incumbent on the National Assembly to pick up these comments; and don’t forget no law passes without a public hearing, for the public to make input.
At the end of the day, being the representatives of the people, it is what the people want that you actually give to them. So, there is no perfect law anywhere. Those areas we feel are contentious, the 10th National Assembly will look at them and fine-tune them for future elections. It is work in Progress. Every election is supposed to be an improvement on the previous one. So, we have not lost hope at all. If anything, we are further energised to do the needful.
The massive application of “technicality” by the courts, in the determination of most of the 2023 electoral cases appears to be an instrument in the hands of judges to subvert justice. Are you not worried about this development?
I do not agree. We could also be considerate on what goes on in the judicial arm. By our jurisprudence for instance, every matter can go up to the Supreme Court, if you want. Even a quarrel between husband and wife can go up to the Supreme Court.
I can hardly think of any country in the world that opens the doors of its Supreme Court to all kinds of matters, be it traditional, customary, between companies, between associations, between States, between federal bodies; everything ends up in the Supreme Court. And an immediate drawback on that is that we do not give the country’s Judiciary ample time to look at the issues and bring out the philosophical aspects of law; of judgements.
You know, judgements are not just looked at. After looking at the facts of the matter, there is also the sociological aspect, where the justices as philosopher kings, will enunciate certain principles behind why they arrived at certain decisions, to help guide the body of laws. So, in most climes, what you have in the apex court, for instance, are constitutional matters. And so, that gives them the latitude to devote enough time and attention to cases.
Now, having said that, there is also the hierarchy of courts for every court of record, beginning with the high court. When you go to the high court and you don’t get justice, there is Appeal Court. If you don’t get justice, then the Supreme Court. And as I said earlier, all gamut of cases go this whole hug unless the people want to stop at certain place; else, there is nothing precluding them.
I give you a typical example, at the Tribunals, the first judgements that came out, were those who said that some members of Labour Party were not properly nominated because, of course, when they asked when did they submit memebers’ register as required by the Electoral Act, but the Electoral Act cannot override the Constitution, which also makes it impossible for someone who did not participate in the primary, first, if you are not a member of a political party, you cannot query the outcome of the primary of another political party.
Secondly, even if you belong to a political party and you did not participate in the primary, you have no ground to query it. Thirdly, should you even desire to query it, there is a time frame given for that to be done. So, we are not supposed to import everything to the tribunal. The tribunal is just supposed to look at the issue: was this person validly elected? And some of these extraneous issues that you refer to as technicalities, you see that when some justices stood on that, at appeal level, all that was throne away.
So, all the judgements that were gotten against Labour Party people were restored at appeal level because that of course is the law. The Electoral Act, yes, is a law but there are established laws regarding nomination of candidates. So, you cannot pick one technical aspect and hold on to that. So, even when you do that, the next court of record is sure to overturn it. So, the Judiciary requires a little patience to understand the modus operandi.
Hon, Nigerians are currently in great economic destress, and this is a function of the state of the economy. Are you not concerned about the pathetic situation?
Every Nigerian should be concerned because even mono product you talked about which is basically fossil fuel crude oil is something that is diminishing; is something that is taking the back seat. Yes, I know that we still have large chunks of oil fields (wells) yet untapped, but there is also environmental aspect of it which is why some people are talking about green energy known as renewable energy, and we have so much sunlight in this part of the world.
That is actually the way to go. Part of the diversification is instead of harnessing this product, which is causing us so much in foreign exchange because we sell and we import. We sell the crude and import refined product. So, it’s like we are going round a barber’s chair, which is like motion and no movement. Even the several derivatives of the crude, we don’t have the benefits; because when you send out the crude, you are only interested in bringing back the refined product.
There are about other seventeen products that can be gotten in that same crude outside petrol. But the challenges we have as a country: number one is security; number two security and number three security.
We wanted to diversify through agriculture, which used to be the mainstay of our economy during the pre and post independence, but we all know what the farmers go through in the North. We also know what they still go through in the South, especially in the Middle Belt that has so much land marks for agriculture. These are people who have to pay protection fees, if they have to harvest their crops. These are people who are attacked and their cattle are rustled. When you come to the South, you have the header/ farmer clashes. So, people go to their farms, get maimed and killed and all what not.
So, that takes an immediate nose-dive of farm produce which should be our immediate comparative advantage in terms of diversification. You should be able to feed yourself. If you feed yourself and have a little extra for export, you can begin to even think about industrialization. So, some of these things are not things that anyone would wish on the nation but this is where we have found ourselves today.
I am glad with the pledge and seeming determination of the government to complete the Ajeokuta steel mill. Those are the areas that we actually need because if we don’t get that right, our iron and steel industry, you can’t have any technological take off. If you don’t have your electricity right, industrialization is almost zero. So, to the best of our ability and the chances that are available, I think that gradually, we can begin to look in those areas especially with the removal of subsidy on petroleum products. That should free up capitals to open the way in the steel and iron industry sector and some other revenue earnings.
The National Assembly is currently under fire over the issue of purchase of SUVs for members, estimated at about N160 million per a vehicle. Is there any justification for this, when the economy is bleeding and Nigerians are agonising?
Well, to begin with, I have not seen any SUV; none has been allocated to either myself or to my Committee. I have not seen one. I have read about it in the media and just like you are telling me that the vehicles are about N160 million, I wonder where the idea of SUV came in.
What I heard was Prado, I don’t know the Prado that goes for N160 million. So, I doubt, to begin with. I believe you got your facts very wrong. I do not speak for the House but I do know that figure is grossly over inflated if indeed it is going to be a Prado vehicle and it is not a bulletproof.
Nobody has told me that it is a bulletproof. So, having said that, yes we are all in a trouble times, the economy with Naira going yo-yo as at this morning somebody told me it’s about a thousand two hundred (N1200) to the dollar, everybody should be concerned but as a former Spokesman of the this House in the 7th Assembly, I do not think that the way to go is rowdy beating and scapegoating the National Assembly.
The National Assembly is just one arm of government. We have three arms of government and the way to begin is by the Executive. I wonder all of us were here and Ministers were appointed, and on the same day they were appointed drove away in not one, two or three vehicles. Yet, nobody is raising such uproar for appointed officials. I am one in support of cut down in cost of governance at some privilege opportunities.
By the way, I happened to have had the privilege of chairing the ad-hoc Committee on Failure of Mass Transit Scheme. And one of our key recommendations is that, if we are even going to buy vehicles as palliative, it is to look at the local content with people like Innoson coming into play in this. We have Peugeot Assembling in Kaduna; we have Innoson in Nnewi.
That is the thinking of my Committee but you can not be asking equal partners, it would only be an unfair father that would ask children of the same parents that one should wear trousers and the other one should wear shorts.
So, the government is made of three arms. You should try and find out, among the over 900 MDAs, what is in use in those places. What is the status of Director in an MDA and what status car does he or she use. What are the brands of vehicles in use in the Executive branch, what are the status of vehicles used in the Judicial branch of government.
As a country, we cannot every four years we come and debate cars; it doesn’t do anybody any good. If cars are to be purchased in the National Assembly, it would be purchased by the National Assembly management. Members do not sit and allocate vehicles to themselves.
So, I think that we should be talking, if there is an Executive order for instance, stating that all categories of officials whether elected or appointed should use Peugeot, I will be the first to grant a Press conference and commend that gesture. But there is no way a few people can change the mindset of everybody.
The minority will always have their say while the majority will have their way, but I don’t think that the Nigerian populace is desirous of this change because they are looking in the wrong direction. If we are desirous of this change, let us look into the Executive arm. Once the Executive arm takes the que, I do not see any National Assembly that will go out to do something different from what the Executive is doing. That is my take on that.
There is this rumour that the National Chairman of the Labour Party has cautioned the LP Rep members not to take the car being proposed for members of the House of Representatives, if eventually purchased? Is that true?
Well, I don’t know, you said rumour, I read it in some self respecting newspapers but when I read it I had to reach out to the national leadership of my party and they sent me the statement of the national Chairman and low and behold there was nowhere in that statement that Labour Party Parliamentarians were requested or directed or ordered to reject the official vehicles.
Let me read the relevant Section, which is actually the last paragraph of the statement of the national Chairman, out of the nine paragraph-statement; “we are also calling on the Labour Party legislators in the 10th Assembly to kick against this unnecessary wastage of resources in line with the ideology of the Party, which is social justice and equal opportunity for all.
Nigerians will hold us responsible and more so, we need to live above board and give proper account of the electoral investment reposed in them. Nigerians are fed up with the status quo, and they crave for a leadership that must cater for the interest of the suffering masses. The poor must be allowed to breathe again in this country.
In this statement there is nowhere he called on Parliamentarians from Labour Party to reject the official vehicles, rather he said that we should kick against unnecessary wastage, which is what we have been doing. Which also tallies with what I have been telling you regarding our recommendation for use of local manufactured vehicles. At different fora of the National Assembly, whether in a Executive session or on the floor.
We have always tended to stand with the Nigerian people by saying, let us do things in proper way. That is the same thing as kicking against anti people policies. So, we are kicking against that. We are all for lean government.
We are all here when the President appointed 48 ministers and even in the appointment of the 48 ministers we know that some zones, after the one per a zone in line with the Constitution, some zones also produced additional ministers, the South East, where I come from had only five ministers and heavens haven’t fallen. Nigerians have forgotten about that; rather they moved on.
But some of us did cry out to say this was wrong. So, by the same token, we should focus on the Executive as I said earlier.
We would always point out these things but it is not our duty to make purchases or stop the purchase of necessary tools for the work of everybody. People have to be in agreement.